Re: Is Remote Judging Futuristic ?

17. huhtikuuta 2008 11:51

If technically feasible  this could unite the dance World.

I have  no answer ,  but just for interest imagine:  

Organizers wanting to hold a competition not needing WDC,  IDSF or anyone else,  to hold a recognized event . All they would need do would be  to book adjudicators, by paying  some organisation ( with the technology and judges on pay list you suggested,  for the sake of illustration call them  "World Wide Internet Dance"  )   for booking recognized adjudicators to judge  competitions.

Even,  show respect, and to be nice, they could still get the sanctioning  from a national , local dance association.

Go even further ...  Do not bother with  adjudicators at all   for any  competition with  just SemiFinals and (definitely not competitions with just)  Finals . 

Just videoptape the event from two different angles,  send the video to "World Wide Internet Dance " , responsible for supplying judges,  pay them a fee for reviewing the video  and marking, and placing  the dancers from 1-12 and reporting the results back to the organizer.

Organizer then announces the results and 10 days later  mails  out the medals, or saving on stamps,  have the medals picked up by the lucky 1,2 and 3 .  

Not only would you save on judges, if fairness  was in question you  could ask for  judges who do not know the dancers, lets say (approved )  judges from pplaces like  China, or Siberia to   adjudicate. 

How would that work for 2009, your  Blue Silver ?

Problem solved. No more bothering the judges, no more favoritism, no more wasting moneys on "political" lessons. 

Resulting possibly  in lower  prices of tickets, greater affordability,  more interested in dance people attending the events.  Organizers could even make a profit.

 Cheers  and good luck. 

Re: Is Remote Judging Futuristic ?

17. huhtikuuta 2008 16:09

Interesting.  The idea of Paper-view,  instant messaging,  close circuit ..

@Keggs

Agree.  Who are the judges answerable for their decision at present ?

Does anyone excercise the right to  challenge the judges ?

The idea of centralized,  "remote"  judging could work.   At first inlist the qualified judges,

send to the judges applications to state their qulaifications, experience,  try the system with 'regular' judges present.....compare the judging results,  have a scrutaneer compare the outcome,  based on the results, and feedback from 'remote' judges decide if to continue to use / employ the judges ( if their work was satisfactory )  and pay them.

I can see the pay /reward could be quite significant because organiser would save lots of money.

Visit a local video/Rogers or what have you store and ask how the close circuit could be done,  or 

check with some of the XXX sites which operate in a similar way:  You log on, get access, talk, see, provide feedback ...

Interesting :)     

I would love to get Mr. Hilton's opinion without the need to travel far away.

Re: Is Remote Judging Futuristic ?

19. huhtikuuta 2008 12:33

Looks like I might be the only one opposing this idea?

I am generally a fan of technology. After all, this is my work, a large part of my life, and I do love its applications. But, you should know the limitations.

There are severe limitations to taking 1,2,3.. cameras to judge.

- Resolution. A judge should be able to examine the details of the couples dancing, especially at the higher level. No videocamera (or even typically used photo cameras... I should know) today would give the level of detail a judge could observe with their own eyes. Not to mention webcameras. Internet connection speeds today are not capable of transmitting video at the level of detail needed to make qualified opinions on which couple is better than another one (on as higher level) I believe.  For example - can you really even tell apart couples on those YouTube videos? I sometimes find videos and try to find out which event they are dancing in by looking at their numbers. Well - in any given dance's recording I am lucky if I can spot 1/2 second where ONE couple's number is readable. I am not even talking about a round with, say, 10 couples where a judge should be able to use a split second view when a man spins to identify their number.

- Limitation on which couple to look at. The judge, being present by the floorside, can choose which couple to look at, at which moment, from which angle. With streaming video, there is a limitations to which couple is shown, so the judge can not, for example, switch back and forth between two couples to decide which one is better if he needs time to make a decision if the couples are very close in quality. Even if you manage to put a camera on each couple at the same time (I am not even mentioning bandwidth requirement of streaming all pictures at the same time, when in the previous paragraph I expressed my doubt that streaming even one with good enough quality to judge is not very likely), the cameraman decides, usually by virtue of the camera being at a fixed location, from which angle the couple is shown. And what happens if another couple dances in between, obstructing the view? The judge can just walk 2 steps and he/she is OK. Have you never wanted that damn cameraman to focus on a different couple, different part of the couple shown, when you were watching a television broadcast of a competition? Think about it.

I do agree however, that the No. 1 problem most competitors are concerned about, is the fairness of judging (or, in couples opinion, lack of it). So I think it is a good thing to think about ways to improve this perception (reality too, but I sincerely believe it is more a perception issue) - I just don't think remote judging is even close to giving us the level of judging possible with judges being present by the floor. At least not with today's available technology and I don't think it will be for at least 10 years, probably more.